No apologies for Microsoft Windows
By apexwm, 22 July, 2011 14:43
Recently I've had some discussion with colleagues about Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux in comparison to each other. Generally, I've found that most people agree that Mac OS X is more stable than Windows, and those that are familiar with Linux feel that it too is more stable than Windows. But after that being said, they come back with an apology for Microsoft stating that they (Microsoft) have to get Windows to run on fragmented hardware, whereas Apple standardizes the hardware and can therefore provide a more stable operating system for it, because there aren't nearly as many variations in hardware configurations.
I agree that Apple definitely has an advantage because of the consistent and standardized hardware platform to run on. Windows does have an enormous amount of Intel hardware that it must run on, so the argument I commonly hear is that Microsoft can't possibly run consistently for each separate hardware scenario, and that this causes instability issues.
While this may be partially true that Windows needs to run on a wide variety of hardware, I often ask how Linux can effectively run on the same hardware set as Windows, yet run consistently better than Windows. The main reason in my opinion is the enormous amount of community effort that goes into the Linux kernel and the GNU/Linux operating system as a whole, giving it the ability to quickly and efficiently adapt to the ever-changing hardware. Microsoft with its limited amount of employees that contribute to its own kernel, can't possibly keep up as everything is kept behind closed doors. While keeping its software proprietary will help Microsoft retain its grip on how Windows is distributed and ensure cash flow inbound, it ultimately hurts the Windows consumer with the limited amount of community resources that Microsoft has to put towards it. The amount of community support for the Linux kernel is virtually unlimited, however even Linus himself has made comments in the past about the amount of work to keep everything in line with the current amount of contributors.
There are many other debates on this subject, but it's interesting to hear the different takes on why people feel the way they do about what operating systems they have used. Personally, I don't feel any need to apologize for Microsoft. Microsoft has capitalized significantly over the decades due to its model of marketing software for generic Intel hardware. But in today's world, things are changing and the variety of hardware is far greater than it was 20 years ago, not to mention the rate of change as well.
Talkback
Where there are instabilities in Windows systems, they're nearly always caused by third-party drivers (with quite a few physical hardware faults, especially memory) and graphics card drivers continue to be the worst culprit. It would be interesting to see if community development of Windows device drivers would improve the stability of systems.
As a point of data, or at least anecdote, Macs in our office crash as often
as Windows or slightly more; that's still rarely but we've never traced a Mac
crash to a hardware fault whereas I'm hard put to think of a blue screen more
recent than the beta of Vista that wasn't hardware or a graphics driver (and
cured by replacing or removing the culprit). I no longer keep the list of STOP
errors that was my constant companion under XP within reach. Did you break your
conversations out by version of Windows?
M
Simon Bisson and Mary Branscombe 22 July, 2011 20:07
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I have never read so much hypocrisy in my life. Seriously, if you are gonna be biased, at least have some credibility. I have Windows 7 installed on three different systems. 1. A DELL Dimension 8300 purchased back in March 2004, Windows 7 Professional 32 bit runs flawlessly on it, all devices and components detected. This system originally came preloaded with Windows XP, upgraded it to Windows Vista in 2006 and its now running Windows 7.
2. Acer laptop, originally came with Windows 7 Ultimate, same experience, clean device manager, no issue, upgraded from Windows Vista Ultimate, since upgrading it, I have never reloaded Windows 7 on it once, its been going for two years strong, even ran the pre-release version of Windows 7 along with the beta and RC on it.
3. HP Workstation, this came with Vista Business 64 bit, upgraded it to Windows
7 Professional 64 bit, same case, it upgraded flawlessly, all the hardware detected
out the box, the only thing I did after I upgraded was install Windows Live
Essentials using the full off line installer.
Andre Da Costa 23 July, 2011 07:22
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Part 2:
I have tried the latest Ubuntu 11.04 which is considered the most user friendly of all Linux distros on all 3 systems. Because of where I live, I don't have a reliable Internet connection, so I had to download the .ISO at my brothers house and installed it when I got home. Well, I didn't get Unity although all 3 systems have powerful enough discrete graphics card, Windows 7 out of the box I had Aero Glass, I couldn't play any MP3's, I was playing MP3's out of the box on Windows 7, I was bombarded with updates the minute I logged it, Windows Update dos do this. I connected my iPod Touch synced up my playlist, my iPod is just some generic device on Ubuntu.
I tried doing an offline upgrade of 11.04 from 10.10, wasn't possible. Windows 7, I just inserted the Windows 7 DVD, click Install Now, click Upgrade. Finding this Ubuntu is a nightmare, I inserted the disc, nothing came up in Ubuntu 10.10, some persons said I should check the software center, still didn't find anything. Its obvious if this is suppose to be easiest distribution of Linux, its more like a nightmare.
You say Mac OS X is more stable than Windows? Well check out what people are saying about the latest Lion release, from ComputerWorld: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9218612/Most_Mac_OS_X_Lion_upgrades_going_well_however_...?taxonomyId=123&pageNumber=1
Seriously, hating Microsoft, just because its Microsoft is not a good excuse.
Its this type of bias why the OS has remained at 0.76% for the past 20 years.
Andre Da Costa 23 July, 2011 07:22
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Apex, you must know by now that Linux is for those who want it. It's not going
to be for everybody unless the OEMs take it seriously like they do for Windows.
burningwreckage 23 July, 2011 08:19
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And FWIW, I would say PCLOS is the easiest Linux for beginners. Ubuntu just gets all the press.
http://www.pclinuxos.com/?page_id=180
burningwreckage 23 July, 2011 08:26
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One thing that annoys me about people moaning about Ubuntu is that they say
something is very hard to do without looking at the documentation. Sytem ->
Help and Support will answer most questions.
Alternatively a search on Google which will often take you directly to the answer
e.g. a search for "update ubuntu 10.10 to 11.04" will lead you to
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NattyUpgrades which explains very clearly
what you have to do.
The problem is that people are so used to not having easy help or explanations
in Windows that they don't even think of looking for it in Ubuntu or other Linux
distros. In my experience, over all Ubuntu is easier to use than Windows its
just that people have already got used to coping with the difficulties of Windows
and refuse to get through a small learning curve to pick up Linux.
lagonda 23 July, 2011 15:19
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'Windows does have an enormous amount of Intel hardware that it must run on' - surely it's not Intel hardware (processors) that's the problem, it all the other hardware (graphics card, sound cards etc)?
'Seriously, hating Microsoft, just because its Microsoft is not a good excuse.
Its this type of bias why the OS has remained at 0.76% for the past 20 years.'
I don't understand that!
47674 23 July, 2011 19:16
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@lagonda, why do I have to search documentation or Google about how to do an
upgrade? Windows 7, insert the disc, it auto runs click Install Now, when the
setup menu appears, click Upgrade. Thats it, voila. Even if I had to turn to
documentation, at least Microsoft and many others provide well written documentation
thats easy to find.
Andre Da Costa 24 July, 2011 11:59
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Wow some people are using some Windows version for ages and tried Linux for a few days before telling things like that. Oh well let's clear some things:
@apexwm
Nice article but what what was the point? I see nothing that we didn't already
know by now... Sorry but that is plain truth.
@Andre Da Costa
Start using Linux before inputting lies like that. Do some research and please
do read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Windows_and_Linux before
saying that Windows do more out-of-the-box. Of course it's doing more but did
you know that most Linux distros come in 700MB flavors when Windows 7 32bit
is 16GB, the 64bit flavor being 20GB?? My Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS is now 3GB and
it's doing a lot more than Windows could ever dream of.
Installing/unselecting components:
The difference is that when you install Windows you can't really choose what
Windows service you don't want, you have to install them all and that's it.
You then can disable some but it will always be present on the harddisk drive
and using a select software using those services will make Windows crash. With
Linux you can choose what you want to install since it does not come with 1
million services and obsolete software built-in. Let me expose some facts taken
directly from that link I posted before, and that everyone will agree:
"...Linux distributions can not lawfully include MP3 or MPEG-4 file decoders in a minority of countries, as it would violate the Patent Cooperation Treaty. The system does not prevent a user from installing these decoders, however the user assumes all liability for installing said pieces of software.[40] In particular with the MP3 file format, many companies claim patents relevant to the format..."
"...As Microsoft has licensed decoders for a number of patented audio and video coding methods, Windows is able to play a number of patented formats by default. Nevertheless, Microsoft's methods of bundling software were deemed illegal in the case United States v. Microsoft. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft"
Of course Windows is doing more out-of-the-box but using crappy codecs for
multimedia, codecs that we latter replace with better ones and we then use VLC
to play every multimedia format on the planet. With Linux we do the same: install
proprietary codecs then use VLC for multimedia playback. Nothing changes there
it's basically the same.
Nova Thunder via Facebook 24 July, 2011 19:50
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Usability:
In desktop area, Linux is not very present because people fear changes like
kids having unreasonable fear looking under their beds for monsters. Did it
happen to you that you couldn't delete a file on Windows cause it's supposedly
already in use when it's not?? or the same for a file that does not exist but
you actually see it but just can't delete it? Or having previous Windows installation
files that you cannot delete since their write protected and you don't have
proper rights to delete it? Sometimes even booting in Safe mode does nothing
more. The only way to delete these files using Windows is by formatting the
drive then reinstalling a fresh copy of Windows. Wow too simple isn't it? But
when you have a 2TB hdd to clear before installing Windows again (just because
you can't delete old Windows installation files) is not that simple and not
everyone has another 2TB drive that can host all the files you have to backup
before doing a format, just to reinstall WIndows again and recopy those data
back onto the drive. Did that far too many times to be bored by that by now.
For those times, using Linux is the only way to simply delete them, which is
something I have to do like once a week. Yes I use thousands of software so
it more than frequently happens.
Fragmentation:
In Linux you will never have to defragment it since it won't fragment at all
and if it does, Linux is not affected at all performance wise. And we all know
that Windows is fragment way too much when installing/deleteing many games/softwares
like I'm doing. Also after only a few weeks of use, Windows is becoming so slow
that you see a real difference performance wise when reinstalling a fresh copy
of Windows. That don't and will never happen with Linux.
Programming:
In Windows you can't modify Microsoft proprietary files since everything is
encrypted to not let anyone see the actual code. You can always use third party
software but again you won't be able to modify anything you just have to trust
anyone without even be able to see what thoses programs have under their belly.
In Linux you just rewrite the files you want to, doing so makes it easy to customize
Linux yourself.
Nova Thunder via Facebook 24 July, 2011 19:50
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Also in Windows there is a command prompt for command-line use, but apart from moving files or writing keys to the registry, you cannot do much things with it. You have to install other programming languages and even then a lot of commands won't work since it's not compiled to work on other native shells so ActivePERL for Windows differs from ActivePERL for Linux. Start using it you'll see by yourself. I make my own programs to work on every Microsoft OSes and Also on Linux within the same programs. No need for different programs for each but I have to forget some modules that won't work on both OSes which much limits my coding. Also Linux comes out-of-the-box with most programming languages built-in, languages that I have to install myself in Windows (remember it's 20GB for the Windows 64bit and still and does not come with what I need for everyday use?? now you see Windows shot itself in the foot).
Everyday use:
Want to modify partitions in Windows, even modify a Linux or MacOS partition??
You have to install proprietary software which you have to buy first (or be
illegal and download it via torrent). Want to use something else than that crappy
Internet Explorer or Microsoft Office that don't support other file formats
than it's own made ones? In Windows you're pretty much busted or you have to
open your wallet again and again (remember MS Office cost hundreds of dollars
and it cannot read other file formats). Linux can do all that by default.
Stability:
What you really think Windows is that stable as to put your hand in fire? I
don't think so. I've been using Windows since version 3.1, and I've seen countless
crashes of all sorts and the same applies for Windows 7. Of course it's more
stable than ever but far from being perfect. Just go look for yourself in the
folder:
"C:\Users\YourUserName\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\WER\ReportArchive"
and you'll see lotta entries which means Windows DID crash but since you have
no experience at all you were not aware of it.
Nova Thunder via Facebook 24 July, 2011 19:51
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In Linux there are far less crashes, that is if you install third party apps. Out-of-the-box Linux is almost perfect. Also the only proprietary driver most people will use in Linux is Nvidia's or ATI's graphic drivers. Everything else is supported by the community, meaning that millions of people wrote proper drivers and included it in GNU public license so that now each distro supports those without restrictions. That makes Linux far less prone to crash due to badly coded driver. Don't care about your iPod recognized as a generic device on ubuntu since you don't have any intelligence so as to install it on Linux which millions of people (and kiddies) did before you and you can't do it yourself.
Games:
Oh games, Windows will play them all, Linux won't since most are DirectX coded
which Microsoft don't want to share it's coding to the GNU community. That is
no secret: paid software will kill advancement, like a paid antivirus is far
less potent that free antivirus which are updated hourly by millions of people
and not just a few dozens employee of a select firm can do by themselves. But
games using OpenGL does in fact run far better on Linux than it does in Windows
since OpenGL is far better implemented on Linux.
Specific/scientific usability:
Nasa don't use Windows in their rockets or in the robots currently exploring
Mars. You have to guess that they just are not allowed to modify Windows for
their needs so the just use a homemade Linux distro so that only things necessary
for missions are installed and in use. Why would they want widgets or unneccessary
hardware/software/services when they can have none of these crappy things that
slow down computing? Also less than 1% supercomputers in the world are running
on Windows when more than 91% of supercomputers uses Linux. That speaks for
itself.
Nova Thunder via Facebook 24 July, 2011 19:51
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liveCD:
Microsoft won't ever give us a liveCD to get repairs/tests done so forget that.
If you just can't install Windows, either cause you don't have a floppy/optical
drive in your computer or cause their is an hardware failure, then you just
can't repair your computer. Linux offers a variety of LiveCD/USBs to get the
job done, even tho the cpu, ram or hdd gets hardware failure. No need to install
just insert CD/DVD/USB then run it. That's it you then do whatever you have
to before booting your normal OS if you happen to have repaired the thing. Windows
can't boot?? Oh well just reinstall it. Linux can't boot? LiveCD/DVD/USB, repair,
then boot back in your installed OS, being Windows or Linux.
Bottom line:
Oh well apart from games, Windows could dream of being that much out-of-the-box
as Linux is. Think it will be much more feature-full than Linux when it will
be 40GB or more worth of third party apps. But when you do know that Linux do
more with far less (remember my 3GB ubuntu), you don't want to use Windows anymore.
Oh yes if you're the guy that needs to rip DVDs and put it on the web as torrents,
of course you need WIndows since Linux doesn't allow you to break copyrights/encryption
of protected content (anyways some people still can do it but it's their problems
if they get caugh). Also Microsoft knows everything your doing on your computer...
does that scare you? ^^
That's it, tired of laying lines for you when you're not worth it. Start using Linux for a few years before saying that Windows is far better. You'll see that apart games, it is much more capable of doing what you want it to do. Of course if you're fearing changes or the terminal you won't get very far in Linux. In Windows if you can't do it, chances are that you can't do it in the command prompt as well. In Linux if you can't do it, then you can do it with the terminal, sometimes using "sudo" before the actual commands will do magic.
I'll stick to these lines which I strongly agree:
"although Linux administrators are usually paid somewhat higher salaries
than Windows administrators, a competent Linux administrator can take care of
more computers than the latter."
Peace
Nova Thunder via Facebook 24 July, 2011 19:51
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as laconda mentionned, you must not forget that Linux documentation is so much
complete and also google gives you al the answer you are looking for. Windows
documentation just gives us info that we already knew but no real answer. Having
problems with specific hardware being LAN, Windows files or the registry, you
then go to Microsoft help center which doesn't help you at all. All it tells
you is that:
"Is the hardware properly inserted?" Or stupid things like that. Linux
documentation is maintained by the community so you'll get an answer real quick
and even can ask a human to help you, which in Windows you are pretty much on
your own. Of course you can ask at tomshardware on any other tech site you know
but most of the time even they cannot help you since most of them just want
to get fun out of you.
Patrick Duharnais via Facebook 24 July, 2011 20:06
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@burningwreckage
I didn't know that distro. Been using Ubuntu since 8.04 until 10.04LTS, since
I don't like 11.04 at all. But I see no point to use a Windows-like Linux when
I want it to be way more different than Windows crappy-ware. I'll still download
it though to install it on my friend's computer if they wanna try Linux for
the first time. They'll tell me if it's better than Ubuntu for a first time
linux user, but I will keep my current dual-boot ubuntu/Windows installment
on every computer I own (got 11 at home ^^) Thanks for that distro though ^^
Patrick Duharnais via Facebook 24 July, 2011 20:16
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@Andre Da Costa
> I have never read so much hypocrisy in my life. Seriously, if you are
> gonna be biased, at least have some credibility.
LOL. I don't think @apexwm is a real person: he doesn't give a name, job (if any) title etc. In fact, I suspect it's an "articficial intelligence" program with a bunch of boilerplate paragraphs. Not sure about....
@Nova Thunder via Facebook
> Microsoft won't ever give us a liveCD to get repairs/tests done so forget that.
Personally I have no problems using a Live CD, but you can boot to a Windows
Recovery Console, or use (official or unofficial) PE
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/143529-make-pe3-program-to-create-portable-windows-7-pe/
Jack Schofield 25 July, 2011 09:48
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Mary:
Most of the conversations I've had were with Windows 7, but some XP mixed in as well. To be honest, we've seen a new era of issues with Windows 7 that were not in XP, so in the long run the Windows 7 upgrade so far has not been a very good return on investment by the time extra labor and software costs have been added in. The Windows issues are not always hard crashes (blue screens), but other bugs and problems that affect the users' ability to get their work done. A lot of resources are allocated at fixing bugs and installing patches, as well as combating malware.
Andre Da Costa:
Thanks for the feedback. First, you must compare apples to apples. The Windows 7 upgrade and Ubuntu 11.04 are two different upgrades. Why not download the media for 11.04, boot to it, and upgrade that way? The issues I commonly see from those using Windows are that users expect everything to work just like Windows, and just give up, without reading or trying to understand how to do things. Instead, I urge them to read the documentation or ask in one of the many Linux forums available.
Also, doing a Windows 7 upgrade is NOT as easy as just clicking a few buttons.
You did not mention that there is no in place upgrade from XP to 7, only Vista
to 7 is supported. Also, what about the fact that you have to comb the manufacturer's
website for your PC to download and install individual device drivers that may
be missing after the 7 install is finished. Ubuntu? All open source drivers
are installed automatically just like most other Linux distributions, and closed
source drivers can be installed with a click or command.
apexwm 25 July, 2011 14:07
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"Seriously, hating Microsoft, just because its Microsoft is not a good excuse. Its this type of bias why the OS has remained at 0.76% for the past 20 years."
I base all of my writings on everyday and real world experiences with Windows, Linux, and sometimes Mac OS X. I also base them on years of experience of using Windows and Linux extensively side by side, and from learning them both inside and out. After I took the time to learn GNU/Linux, I was glad that I did because I found out what I had been missing: freedom of my computer to use it how I want, and also not having to waste personal time maintaining it, not to mention the huge array of software available for everyday tasks and even a huge amount of educational software. The best part about the software is it is not Shareware in any way, so there's no nagging or donations, it's just software that works. I think that there is a lack of communication and education about what GNU/Linux is, to the general public. Sure, it isn't for everybody, but it is not difficult to use contrary to rumors that still float around. Personally I choose Fedora, and I frequently point people to the Fedora website where there's an easy to follow Installation Guide:
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/Installation_Guide/index.html
In fact, I've found that documentation for Fedora is very well done, allowing
casual PC users to install it with ease.
apexwm 25 July, 2011 14:21
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I would like to add two rather late comments to this discussion:
- The experience described by Andre Da Costa, while obviously biased and poorly executed, is a good illustration of why I think Ubuntu 11.04 is an unfortunate mistake. Canonical may work out the bugs, and Unity may turn out to be a huge success and a great advancement in Linux desktop user interfaces. But as it stands in the 11.04 release it has a lot of trouble with a lot of graphic system which one would think should work very easily with it, and for that and a lot of other reasons it can be a real pain, and make a very negative impression on new users. Ubuntu has a reputation in the general public as "THE Linux", and when they run into this kind of thing, it is very bad.
- A very large number of people, including myself and I believe also apexwm, don't hate Microsoft just because they are Microsoft. We hate them because of what they have done, and what they continue to do.
jw
J.A. Watson 25 July, 2011 14:55
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I have a windows 7 laptop running for 15months. Yet to see a single issue.
The concept of windows being unstable is a fairly old one. MS has made progress
with every release and I think Windows 7 is really really good.
robinho 25 July, 2011 18:26
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Man I would want mine 4 months old Windows 7 to be as fast as a fresh install.
Using too much softwares/games that I often have to uninstall many of it over
the passing time. By doind so, my regsitry does get pretty messy since programs
tend to leave the registry keys as is so I made my own cleaner to get the job
done but that's far from being perfect. I also tend to try too much softwares,
way more than the average user might use for many reasons: I like to have the
best of the best and I also program my own ones so I need to get a taste of
what others can do, and I do my own with much smaller size and much more efficiency.
Now my Windows takes like 3-4 minutes to boot, from the start to the point it
is done working and goes to idle. The slowdown is not coming from programs since
I just leave Avira antivirus at bootup. It is not coming from hardware failure,
overheating nor over-dusty case since I work on these weekly to eliminate that.
It is not service-related since I already disabled anything I don't use and
have only the necessary ones loaded at all time. The only thing left is the
registry which I know it is messy from my uses. So that leaves the only option:
reinstall a fresh copy of the OS and that's what I'm doing 2-3 times a year.
People say: Oh mine run for a years or two and I've yet to see a single problem.
Makes me laugh. You can't compare someone using the computer once a while just
to type some words on facebook to another one (like me) over-using it like most
won't ever do in a lifetime. The Windows registry is the worst problem of Windows,
a problem that Linux don't have. I'm doing the same on Linux and I never had
to reinstall any distro I used over time except when I did some big mistakes
(yeah I too often use admin rights in terminal and a slight typo when changing
owner of a batch of files can screw everything very fast... ^^) I don't use
MacOS so I'm wondering if it is suffering the same as Windows. Again someone
almost not using it's computer to it's full potential cannot answer: I use it
on a laptop for 15 months... comon man who can trust something like that when
you don't speak about you current usage or talk about your experience? Of course
there will always be people like that, the same people that never tried Linux,
I can bet on it. ^^
Nova Thunder via Facebook 26 July, 2011 03:24
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@Jack Schofield
Of course I can do a portable Windows 7 disk but I just can't install it on
a customer's pc nor I can suggest people to do that when they have a big problem
with their Windows. Tell someone to make a live Windows cd when they can't even
boot Windows I'm sure it will correct the thing. ^^
Nova Thunder via Facebook 26 July, 2011 03:30
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@Nova Thunder via Facebook
We're not talking about installing, we're talking about recovery. You can boot the recovery console without installing anything.
Otherwise, if you don't know what you're doing, you should leave things alone....
Jack Schofield 26 July, 2011 12:00
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@Nova Thunder the inbuilt Win 7 auto defrager is awful. Using an app such as
Aus Logix defager will make a huge difference. It's also worth creating a fresh
user to see if that runs smoothly before going for a re format. I'm not too
sure about this but i suspect the drive indexing causes problems in the long
run so I untick it. Searching doesn't seem to take that much longer.
roger andre 26 July, 2011 12:25
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Nova Thunder via Facebook :
"Nice article but what what was the point? I see nothing that we didn't already know by now... Sorry but that is plain truth."
Personally I think there are a lot that are unaware, which is why I posted it. I think general understanding and awareness of GNU/Linux is too low and infrequent. As I've written about before, when I introduce it to non-technical people that have been on Windows for many years, they adapt very efficiently and have complimented on the simplicity and stability.
burningwreckage :
"Apex, you must know by now that Linux is for those who want it. It's not going to be for everybody unless the OEMs take it seriously like they do for Windows."
Sure, not everybody is going for format their drive and install GNU/Linux.
But as I mentioned above, there should be more awareness of what it is, and
people should be given a choice. Unfortunately, many have been fed Windows and
are not even aware there are viable alternatives.
apexwm 26 July, 2011 14:07
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Jack,
from my experience with the recovery console, it almost never work so I just
don't use it anymore. The repair option too is terrible as it takes as long
as an install but it fails most of the time. Some people have had success with
those options but I just prefer to reinstall a fresh copy when I'm having too
much problems. That way I know I won't be losing my time. Oh well maybe one
day those recovery method will be better but for now better leave that alone
for Microsoft reps to use.
Nova Thunder via Facebook 27 July, 2011 12:42
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Roger Andre,
I knew someone would talk about defrag since I did not mention it ^^. I'm not
using the Windows defrag since Windows XP: it always was crappy and I've found
out that defragmenting the hdd, then doing it again does in fact worsen the
fragmentation of files, even sometimes it would not defragment at all even though
it was necessary. Also it takes way too much hdd free space (about 10% or more)
so defragmenting a 2TB hdd is a waste of time and space.
When I do defrag, I now use jkdefrag: it is way too long, but it gives me a very detailed log file, which is a must when doing defrag from command prompt (I need both command prompt and log with my own written programs). So I just let it defrag over day and night until it's done, I then check if it's well done and the job is always perfect for my taste: I put video and iso files at the end of the hdd partition so that part stays unfragmented all the time.
I like the idea of creating another user to see if things gets better. I'll try using another account this weekend to see the performance difference when booting and when using Windows in general. Since it is not only slow when booting, but also when doing anything, like opening My computer but it doesn't do it all the time. Tried deactivating the antivirus just in case it is scanning the opened folders and it doesn't imporve anything. Thanks for the advice ^^
Btw let's get back to the main subject: Windows is losing market shares, it
doesn't get well for Microsoft with all that competition from Apple and Android
OSes. Some big names even think computers may be dying in the near futur (which
I highly doubt) to the profit of gaming consoles and tablet PCs (I even more
doubt of that fact but Intel is pretty sure of it). May be the time for everyone
to start using Linux before Windows gets way too ugly. I don't even wanna try
Windows 8 so it does indeed look like hell for Microsoft. If Apple MacOS was
not that expensive for my taste (OS + not free softwares + overpriced Apple
hardware), I would try it but for now I will boycott both Microsoft and Apple
^^ Linux is the way to go for the time being which is why I so much advise people
to use it. It has many advantages over any other OSes on the market.
Nova Thunder via Facebook 27 July, 2011 12:43
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@Nova Thunder via Facebook
> from my experience with the recovery console, it almost never work so I just don't use it anymore.
I wasn't recommending it, simply pointing out that (like PE) it exists. Ignorance
and misinformation is standard in threads like this, and not worth comment,
but there's surely room for the occasional *fact* ;-)
Jack Schofield 27 July, 2011 13:51
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Roger Andre,
Tried making other user account, both with or without administrator privileges.
I then loaded the second account, restarted after a few tweaks here and there,
restarted then reloading the account to see if there was a difference with bootup
times. Did the same for the other account. Result: No difference at all even
without the antivirus loading at bootup. Even I had a strange behavior: I cannot
use msconfig or regedit at all in these accounts o-O too weird for me head ^^.
Also I must add these facts which I also forgot to mention earlier so I'll make a little resume of everything I usually do to make Windows load faster (I do that on right away after a fresh Windows install and everytime I do it. I never forget any of these):
- After the install I do every Windows update.
- Meanwhile I do those dozens of tweaks so that Windows works and look as I
want it.
- Install antivirus then configure it to be a little less agressive but more
efficient (does not scan image folders having thousands of files in it, add
more file types and I do not make it load before Windows as it much slows down
bootup sequence.
- After installing everything (drivers, reboot, softwares, reboot) I use everyday,
I then deselect everything from bootup (only both microsoft keyboard and mice
softwares, antivirus and Realtek audio software is loading at bootup).
- I then deactivate Windows backup (it never works anyways), indexing and hibernation.
- I deactivate a lot of Windows services, and put some other to manual instead.
- I then go into Task Scheduler and deactivate almost everything. There are
only 2 things left, one working every few days, the other every week. So now
there is nothing that makes the HDD work when the computer is idle.
- I also deactivate any automatic updates from any softwares, including the
Windows ones. I do them myself very often.
- I then defrag the whole system HDD for it to be as fast as possible after
having done so much changes to the way Windows works.
After doing that I start using it. My god it is fast, until it starts to slow down the more I install/uninstall games and softwares. Having more than a hundred games I just can't have all of them installed at any time so that makes sense.
...continues in the next post...
Nova Thunder via Facebook 27 July, 2011 13:58
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I also wanna add:
- Windows and my softwares are all the time updated to the latest.
- Computer is not overheating nor dusty. I also maintain it every week and I
always look for hardware failure (which never happened but better be safe than
sorry).
- I also run my own-made programs to: start a full antivirus scan, start a full
malware scan, clean temp and everything needed, backup everything I need to,
backup the whole registry, clean registry keys that puts "recent"
usage (cause I don't want anyone to know what I did on my computer), scan for
HDD errors, fix them if there are any (never happened until now), defrag every
HDD, then reboot to do a scan disk of the main HDD system drive. Oh well it
is pretty much a complete operation that usually takes 2 days to complete (using
jkfrag is way too long like I told you before).
Well after knowing all this, it is almost guaranteed that the registry is the cause for the slow boot process and the slowdowns here and there, since I deactivated everything that made the HDD work at any time, even the automatic updates. When I do clean temp and other things needed I also clean the registry with CCleaner (latest version), taking good care to read every key found to be problematic and I then remove only the ones I know about and that are not crucial to Windows components.
Well see like I do a lot to make things better. It works for a while but gets
slower and slower over time... I don't need to do 1/10 of that on Linux and
it never gets that slow. Any idea?
Nova Thunder via Facebook 27 July, 2011 13:58
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Nova Thunder via Facebook :
Some good feedback and tips on helping Windows performance.
"It works for a while but gets slower and slower over time... I don't need to do 1/10 of that on Linux and it never gets that slow. Any idea?"
It's amazing on how many times this comes up from people that actually have real experience using both Linux and Windows. I think you point out the very reasons: Windows registry and also the fact that Windows dumps temp files all over the place and doesn't care about cleaning them up, ever. Most Linux distributions have the tmpwatch cron job that runs and cleans out the /tmp folder based on file age, plus Linux isn't plagued with a registry.
With these reasons and more, this is why we see Linux installations that have
been used for years, continue to run efficiently. This is almost unheard of
in Windows due to the issues mentioned.
apexwm 27 July, 2011 19:28
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I totally agree with you. The thing I hate the most from Windows is those temps it is putting everywhere without ever cleaning itself. Wanna burn a dvd 4.5GB? Then you're gonna need 4.5GB of free space for temp file, then another 4.5GB free so that Windows can use it freely to make "another copy" of that DVD being burned. It then only clear the second 4.5GB, leaving the temp there. Crash reports take way too much space of HDD. Wanna extract say 2-3 files being 45MB from a 3GB 7-zip archive? Then you gonna need 3GB of free space for temp, THEN it's gonna copy files to the destination, leaving temp there. Installing an application or game using Windows Installer ? Need free space AGAIN for the temp (since it has to extract files from the compressed sources), THEN it's gonna copy files to the destination, AGAIN leaving temp there.
I'm using hundreds of software and games and cleaning all the temps locations can free more than 10GB of data every few days... :-(
Also the registry is a total mess: do you understand anything to those folders being named {2206CDB2-19C1-11D1-89E0-00C04FD7A829} and many more like that? Ok I understand it's meant to prevent people modifying the registry to ENHANCE overall experience. :-( But when you need to clear that mess you are screwed... So we need to trust softwares that can erase something very crucial... or not clean at all. :-(
I love my Ubuntu ^^
Nova Thunder via Facebook 28 July, 2011 00:36
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