Experiences with Windows 7 64-bit hardware support

By apexwm, 1 January, 2011 15:56

More and more as I've had to help support Windows 7 64-bit, I've been encountering more and more hardware that is not supported. This is partially because the move from 32-bit to 64-bit is dependent on drivers being written for the appropriate platform. And some manufacturers simply don't write any 64-bit drivers at all. I've also found that more and more, the number of 3rd party drivers that are needed to get a Windows 7 computer up and running are increasing. It has taken up to 1 hour to install all extra proprietary drivers and software on HP systems that I've recently been helping to deploy with Windows 7 64-bit Enterprise.

Recently I attempted to use my Canon Digital Rebel to take some pictures while away from home. I had my work laptop with Windows 7 64-bit. I never thought twice as I figured it should be simply plug & play, and Windows should recognize the camera as a generic camera device if anything. I really didn't need the special Canon software. I plugged in the camera anxiously waiting for Windows 7 to detect it, and much to my surprise it popped up with an error saying that "Windows could not install the driver software". And that was the end of that. My next step was to visit the Canon website to obtain the driver. Much again to my surprise once again, they do not offer a 64-bit driver for the camera there either! So in the end, I struck out. The camera was simply not going to work with Windows 7 64-bit so I would have to wait until getting home to download the pics from the camera.

The added bummer upon all of this is that I have several other computers running Fedora 10 and 12 Linux which I did not bring with me, that recognize the camera and mount it as a storage device within about 10 seconds to the desktop (just like any other removable media). I can drag and drop photos directly from the camera's storage. Also, what tops Windows even more is that Wine successfully sees the camera and uses Wine twain and camera drivers to use the camera there as well, without any additional software needed (just the wine-twain rpm package which is usually installed as part of the entire Wine software rpms). This means that Wine can interface the camera with Windows applications, where Windows itself cannot.

I have a hard time understanding why Microsoft can't even provide basic drivers to mount the camera as a simple removable device like Linux does, at least allowing me to access the camera's storage card. And also being a very common camera from a well known manufacturer like Canon.

I've learned that when travelling, it's best to go as prepared as possible. Next time, I will be taking my Fedora 10 Linux laptop, which includes Wine, VirtualBox, and knowing that even with simple Internet connectivity, I should not have any surprises like this.

Talkback

As for the Canon Rebel, you can switch the communication mode from Normal to PTP on the camera and Win7 64bit will be quite happy with it. Done that yesterday.0
profoshoff 2 January, 2011 20:44
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profoshoff : Thanks for the tip. I checked and the camera was in fact set to "normal" mode. I will remember that in case we ever need the camera with a Windows machine again.

I've long seen many many problems with drivers and with Windows in 64-bit mode, so the experience I had just topped the cake really.
apexwm 4 January, 2011 04:39
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(1) If you actually need to rely on stuff then obviously the professional thing to do is to check it works before you leave. A quick search would then have found the PTP workaround.
(2) Not sure why you'd bother to plug the camera in, or why this defeats you. I carry multiple cards for multiple devices and simply plug cards directly into a laptop slot or into a cheap USB adaptor. It saves me carrying several cables!
Jack Schofield 4 January, 2011 13:02
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Jack : Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately some things are impossible to check before leaving on a trip, it's hard to guage what problems you _might_ encounter. I assumed that Windows 7 is advanced enough that it supports _most_ devices without having to rely on 3rd party drivers. For instance installing a printer using the generic Windows driver, just to get up and running. There must be some sort of reason that the camera has two different modes. I was on a trip and did not waste too much time researching a workaround for something that works fine on my other computers at home. I don't know the exact reasons for a "normal" and "PTP" mode, all I know is that I am able to install specialized drivers that are 32-bit for Windows XP and it works, and on my Linux systems it works fine as well, with no driver installs at all (the kernel finds the camera and it shows up instantly). I made a broad assumption that Windows 7 would include generic device drivers (even though XP required 3rd party drivers to be installed) without fiddling with the communication mode of the camera.

I agree it's usually easy to remove the storage card and place it in a laptop or other computer and read the data. However the camera uses a CF card and the laptop only had a SD slot.
apexwm 4 January, 2011 21:39
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The other followup point I'd like to make regarding Jack's comment is that locating device drivers in Windows can be time consuming. When on a trip with limited time to spare, this just adds to my frustration. For example, with this experience, I devoted a small amount of time to research the issue and found workarounds for Vista 64-bit drivers, that may or may not work in Windows 7. I did try them and they did not work. In the end, I find myself searching for drivers and researching these problems when overall in Linux you plug in the device and it either works or it doesn't, without having to search around the Internet for 3rd party drivers. In the case that the device fails to work, chances are there is simply no support at all in the kernel. However, I've found very very few devices that this is the case. Even for printers, in Fedora 13/14 Linux, the printer (including HP all-in-ones) is installed automatically when it is plugged in. There are some HP models that require an additional utility to download Linux drivers, but the most difficult part is running the utility... it searches and downloads the firmware automatically. In Windows, installing something like an HP all-in-one requires downloading the drivers manually (or running the CD), logging in as a local administrator, and manually running the proprietary HP setup software. Much more time consuming and many more steps.
apexwm 4 January, 2011 21:48
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apexwm: Well, if you're planning to go on a trip and intend to download pics to a laptop, then it's common sense to make sure you can download pics to the laptop before you set off. It's not rocket science.

As a matter of fact, I've not had any problems at all with drivers and 64-bit Windows 7, but the Canon is a known problem and applied to 64-bit Vista before Windows 7 came out.

Of course, I do understand that Microsoft is at fault because (a) you couldn't be bothered to find out about a long-standing problem with a product you own; and (b) Canon apparently can't be bothered to fix it.
Jack Schofield 4 January, 2011 22:34
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You say yourself that you've been in the IT business for more than a decade. And still you haven't understood that it's the device manufacturers that make the drivers. It's not like the Linux world where people are trying to make manufacturers not make drivers and stuff everything into the kernel.

So, if Canon hasn't made drivers, it's not Microsoft's fault. And also, as mentioned, if you're too stupid to use the device, that's also not Microsoft's fault. But if you understood that, you'd have to also understand that you can't operate a simple device like a digital camera. Too bad, since that's the case. Shamed? Should be, but I think you'll find some angle to twist this around. As you usually do...
Getaclueapexwm 22 January, 2011 21:46
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"And still you haven't understood that it's the device manufacturers that make the drivers. It's not like the Linux world where people are trying to make manufacturers not make drivers and stuff everything into the kernel."

And you backed up my very point: that Windows relies on 3rd parties to write or not write drivers, leaving the users at total mercy of one or both parties. And Microsoft DOES write, sign, and provide generic drivers. How do you think some devices "just work" in Windows 7? In this example, I compared an example of plugging in a digital camera to two different operating systems; one worked, and one didn't. Yes there was a workaround, thankfully in this case.

"Stuffing" in drivers to the Linux kernel is what makes it a very versatile boot environment and essentially a very flexible OS. And yes there can always be the case of a device not working. But guess what, since Linux is open source, any developer can pick up the latest kernel source, and write his or her own driver if they desired. Obviously this would require extensive knowledge of the Linux kernel and device drivers.
apexwm 25 January, 2011 18:09
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